tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post3675134963941465578..comments2024-01-17T04:08:08.257-06:00Comments on Such Stuff: No Punishment Parenting: A Divine PatternSuzannehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13441067291467421356noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post-45644534757137810792019-06-01T21:14:00.774-05:002019-06-01T21:14:00.774-05:00Yes, I love your point that it's mostly about ...Yes, I love your point that it's mostly about figuring out the "why". Even with young kids, so many times I assume I know what the "why" is, but when I take a minute to actually listen and understand, it generally is never what I assume. They aren't trying to be bad, they just have other desires/motives/emotions they are trying to balance, and once we figure those out, we can work toward solutions together. Love your approach to yard work with your son!Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727226129280965650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post-24719652917895118422019-05-30T22:37:26.104-05:002019-05-30T22:37:26.104-05:00I appreciate your thoughts, Beth. You're right...I appreciate your thoughts, Beth. You're right, there are usually other factors involved in the things not getting done. I love that you're willing to hire a lawn service for your son if he pays for it, as a solution to that one!<br /><br />I have come to realize that most of the situations where I have felt the need to punish; it's my problem, not theirs. So I need to do more work on figuring out why a certain behavior is triggering me so much and fix my own issues surrounding that.<br /><br />Always a work in progress! <br /><br />Linnaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06500189741421518061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post-24258803149446346532019-05-30T17:27:21.816-05:002019-05-30T17:27:21.816-05:00My youngest is 18, but this really struck a chord ...My youngest is 18, but this really struck a chord with me. I too moved away from the idea of punishment, and found that it made even less sense as they got older. But at the older ages, you can enlist them in the idea of what is going on. If a ten year old is having trouble finishing chores, or behaving in school, or whatever, you figure out *why* and then work together to find a way that works. Kids do want to behave!<br /><br />In my experience, kids don't want to clean the bathroom, but they do want to be part of the family. So figuring out a way for everyone to do chores isn't a problem of punishment, but figuring out why the status quo isn't working. Maybe the kid hates to have people watch him work. Maybe he is grossed out and needs gloves. Maybe he feels the assignments are unfair and needs to understand how the family chores are balanced. Maybe he's not that great at figuring out individual steps to large projects (FLYLADY lists are good here.)<br /><br />Again, my sample size is small, so maybe I just got lucky and have saints for children. But seeing as I'm currently trying to figure out why the youngest isn't mowing the lawn on schedule, and discussing with him whether he would prefer to just hire a lawn service (and help pay for it out of his part time work) I find that doubtful. But again, the bad lawn maintenance is frustrating but not causing anger between us; and even he wants it to be done but is still figuring out why his plans to do it keep failing. And while that's not a success in making my house look good (so far!), but is the sort of thing he needs to be able to do as an adult. <br />Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18005286623073064886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post-25222837502671557642019-05-30T16:44:25.898-05:002019-05-30T16:44:25.898-05:00Thanks, Linnae, so much for all these great points...Thanks, Linnae, so much for all these great points! I don't have the answers to everything, but here are some of my thoughts. First, I probably should've clarified that when I used the term "consequences" I meant negative consequences. We use positive consequences, or rewards, all the time! My children also have to do certain chores and meet certain expectations before they are allowed screen time. You are right that the Lord promises blessings for obedience, and sometimes not earning those blessings or losing out on the reward can feel like a punishment. But I would argue that, at least in parenting, there should never be an extra punishment beyond not earning the reward for failing to do something. I think it should always be framed in the way of earning positive rewards, not failing and therefore earning a negative consequence (for instance, in my situation about threatening the negative consequence of no story-time, that's not something he "earns". Story time is a given, a part of bed-time routine. He doesn't have to do anything to deserve it, so me taking it away is an unfair negative consequence. Whereas screen time is not a given. It is a reward that is earned. So there's a difference there.)<br /><br />As far as all your concerns about motivating kids to do housework, that's a whole can of worms where I don't have nearly as much experience as you, and yeah, I get it's totally tricky and hard. Your kids are mostly older than mine, we've only really pushed chores with our 7-year-old, and he's pretty naturally responsible. But even still, it is a challenge of finding the right motivation. This is why I've decided, as of this summer, to start tying chores and other routine expectations (like practicing an instrument) to receiving an allowance. I've never done this before, I don't know if it will work, and I used to be adamantly opposed to this kind of thing. I used to believe that children should do chores as just the expected part of contributing to a household. But the more I've been thinking about this positive reward vs. negative punishment idea of motivation, the more I'm leaning to giving positive motivation for chores, and avoiding negative punishment motivation as much as possible. When I think back on chores as a kid, it was always a miserable experience. I hated pretty much everything about chores, and I did them grudgingly because the consequences were always negative (mom yelling, loss of privileges, etc.) Today, I still hate house-cleaning, but I do it because I'm much more intrinsically motivated (it's my house, I want it to look nice). My kids don't necessarily have that same motivation, so I'm trying to give them another form of more positive motivation.<br /><br />So what happens when they don't do the work? Well, obviously they don't earn the money, but beyond that... right now nothing. But like I said, my kids are younger than yours, and I still feel like we are very much in the "teaching" stage of chores, where I'm doing the work right along with them to show them how to do it (I stand next to my 4-year-old and hand him every single piece of silverware he puts in the drawer when he empties his part of the dishwasher), so everything is still getting done because I'm there guiding every step of the way. Maybe when my kids are older and it becomes more expected that they do things on their own, it will get harder and more frustrating and we'll have to re-evaluate. But my goal is always about focusing on a positive atmosphere, never a negative one.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727226129280965650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8559247687312084765.post-22386299721002836242019-05-29T16:25:26.764-05:002019-05-29T16:25:26.764-05:00Hi Suzanne!
I appreciate your thoughtful post on ...Hi Suzanne!<br /><br />I appreciate your thoughtful post on this topic. I love what you have to say about giving our kids grace and time for repentance and change. That's something I need to do better on. Also, not punishing them for age appropriate behavior or for what they're feeling at any given time. <br /><br />However, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the part about no consequences. I do think that rewards and consequences are also part of the Divine pattern of parenting. We learn that certain blessings are only available to those who are obedient. Obedience to specific laws brings specific blessings. So are the disobedient punished, because the blessing is withheld, or is that just considered a consequence? <br /><br />I do feel like we are (I am) too quick to punish and mete out consequences, but I also want my children to get a really good handle on this whole idea: obedience brings blessings. Disobedience brings its own set of consequences, most of which will not be "fun" but will probably teach you things you need to learn. Yes, often my consequences are not the natural consequences, but rather something my husband and I came up with in an attempt to modify behavior. You're right when you say that they don't always work, though!<br /><br />Right now, I find the biggest area where I have felt like I need to institute rewards and consequences is with daily chores and other expectations along those lines. The fact is, no-one likes to the clean the toilet. I don't like to clean it. Yet my children are expected to help out with cleaning the house every day, practice their instrument daily, and do their homework. We also have them help on a rotating schedule with taking care of our chickens, cooking dinner, and doing dishes. (They're 11, 9, 7, and almost 2.) <br /> If there was not some kind of reward attached to completing these daily tasks, I don't know that they would do them. That includes the corollary, though. There is also a consequence for NOT completing them as expected. So we use screen time as a reward for getting their stuff done--well, free time with screen time as one of the choices. If they don't get it done, no screen time. For one of my kids I have also taken to starting a timer, and letting it run until they choose to get started. Then I make him go to bed that many minutes earlier that night. He is super easily distracted, so sometimes the timer helps him to focus in on what he's supposed to be doing. But also, yeah, it is pretty much just punishment on the other end of it. <br /> How do you handle this aspect of it? I am open to any ideas you might have!<br /> Kids are so different just personality-wise, too. My oldest would probably still get his stuff done. He's super responsible and can see the big picture of all that he could do with his time if he just gets home and gets it done. My 7 year old really struggles. If I just let him do his own thing, he wouldn't do any of it. He would happily just play all afternoon and evening. Then we would have a meltdown the next morning when his homework was not done. My daughter, the 9 year old, will get her stuff done, but it has to be on her own time schedule. She often will set a timer for herself for example, to practice for 10 minutes, then she gives herself 10 minutes to play, then back to practicing, and so on. <br /> Anyway, I am intrigued by these ideas. Let's talk some more!<br />Linnaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06500189741421518061noreply@blogger.com